tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post4469601059236247343..comments2024-03-01T03:37:20.420-05:00Comments on I'M SOMEWHERE ELSE: some disabled staff person fragments and factsAmanda Foresthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04200794053287551087noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-52530683776260323572011-07-06T15:01:16.304-04:002011-07-06T15:01:16.304-04:00I'm afraid this is going to be one of those co...I'm afraid this is going to be one of those comment threads where instead of replying to a bunch of comments that they really LOVE (and I love all these comments a lot), the original poster just replies to one comment that bothers them, and ignores all the others. Sozzer.<br /><br />TechWhisperings, I think what bothers me a little is that you made a lot of assumptions about what happened and what was said, when my description of what happened was pretty vague (not intentionally to mislead, but because what I was writing was more about how the situation is different for me than it is for my coworkers, less about the situation itself).<br /><br />1. The conversation originally started being about meltdowns, but he said the same about other campers who process slowly, are reluctant to do activities, wander, etc.<br /><br />2. He wasn't the one dealing with the meltdowns, I was; the camper was my camper. Also I wasn't as triggered by what this guy was prescribing as I was by the fact that he was making a moral judgment on campers for things that are part of their disability. (I know that non-disabled people sometimes have this attitude toward disabled people, but I don't expect it from people who actually have sought a job working with disabled people.)<br /><br />3. He said that his parents hit him and he thinks that's a good thing, and "my campers are lucky they're not my kids." Which would seem to indicate that he has deep-set beliefs and I might not be able to change his mind.<br /><br />4. That said, I did have multiple conversations with him in which I expressed I didn't agree with him (and all of my decisions as a staff person, some of which he's very contemptuous of for not being tough enough on campers, shows that I disagree). Every time, he didn't change his mind, I became more and more (invisibly) upset, and I regretted not cutting off the conversation as soon as he made the triggering comment.<br /><br />5. When you say I'm in a "unique position" I wonder if you mean because I am disabled and I can educate him by explaining my disability? However, I've already explained why I don't like to be open about my disability at work. (If you mean something else, I'm not sure what you mean by unique.)<br /><br />I respect that you are okay with being triggered and feel that it helps you, but I don't want to put myself (or the campers I am responsible for) through emotional pain or physical danger, so I would like to avoid triggers. I don't have PTSD and am using the word trigger in a more colloquial sense to mean "something that might cause me to have some kind of mood or dissociative episode." I have heard though that for many people with PTSD being exposed to triggers repeatedly isn't therapeutic and can make things worse.<br /><br />I do appreciate your kindness and the fact that you want to give me advice, but sometimes when I am just expressing what something is like and someone else gives me suggestions, it bothers me because I'm already trying as hard as I can.Amanda Forest Vivianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06284158336100298682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-57332192832028656522011-07-04T18:24:19.846-04:002011-07-04T18:24:19.846-04:00Oh my god Amanda, I just found this because I'...Oh my god Amanda, I just found this because I've had pretty limited internet access for a while, but wow. I'm really sorry you're having this experience. It's infuriating, too, that camp management has responded to the situation by telling counselors to stop "gossiping" about this person's abusive behavior, instead of, I don't know, actually intervening to stop the behavior in question.<br /><br />I have to say I'm undergoing a similar thing. The tutor I'm shadowing is nice and bubbly and kind towards me, but is willing to treat the kid we work with in a pretty terrible way. And it makes me feel so fucking bad about how nicely she treats me, because I feel like it's all based on this false assumption that I am Like Her and not Like Them. She thinks that I don't belong to that select group of people with whom she just turns off her human decency - but I do, and oh god oh god what the hell would happen if she found out.Zoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11415989880473044852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-33763287154145802262011-07-04T11:46:24.227-04:002011-07-04T11:46:24.227-04:00Wow, Julia/Juststimming, I was really uncomfortabl...Wow, Julia/Juststimming, I was really uncomfortable with that Techwhispering's comment and I didn't know why because it sounded nice. But that was why, even though I know it wasn't malevolent.<br /><br />Just to be clear, when I said that I thought what Amanda Forest Vivian was doing is impressive, I meant the stuff she's doing for disabled people and the example she is setting for people in general (not as a disabled person so much as as a person), but I also meant with the crying and fear and self injury. Because it seems to me that it's ultimately all part of the same thing and you can't chop them up like that.<br /><br />At no point can "the flashbacks can be changed," I think. Not that kind, not reallyPanchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14695297748121188470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-60439676975233049012011-07-04T11:18:57.753-04:002011-07-04T11:18:57.753-04:00Concerning the words "cissexism" and &qu...Concerning the words "cissexism" and "heterosexism" and the problem of no other words to use when it's more about hatred, there is a blogger who has proposed other words, on this page: http://angerisjustified.wordpress.com/definitions/ :<br />Transmisogyny – hatred of trans women (and often other CAMAB non-cis/non-‘masculine’ people).<br />Transhatred – hatred of trans/non-cis people.<br />Misohomy – formerly homophobia, term coined by me to avoid ableism. Hatred of gay people/non-heterosexual people (see below).<br />Misahetery – hatred of (mis) non (a) heterosexuals (hetery). Coined to avoid monosexism.<br />The blogger is an agender trans person whose blog is named "Anger is justified" and I think those words can be quite useful.Ole Ferme l'Oeilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07632467869395776084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-54197638710247694392011-07-04T10:07:48.042-04:002011-07-04T10:07:48.042-04:00TechWhisperings, what people are objecting to is t...TechWhisperings, what people are objecting to is the suggestion that autistic people are obligated to "gently" teach abusive people to stop being abusive. (That may or may not be what you intended to say, but it's definitely how you're coming across.)Mtthwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08044477052374837348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-17778887126896682692011-07-04T06:03:42.537-04:002011-07-04T06:03:42.537-04:00My PTSD only comes from an occasional whipping or ...My PTSD only comes from an occasional whipping or pop in the face and a tad bit of sexual abuse. It's really sad that getting a handle on it is perceived as not understanding it. Or that giving someone the notion that things can get better is somehow harming them.<br /><br />If you think that people need to know how to handle tantrums is biased, you must think that tantrums are unique to autistic people. I wish that were the case but I watched my parents beat the hell of my neurotically and quite socially gifted brother for years for tantrums. I'm sorry to say, that just isn't a special that you uniquely experience or own.<br /><br />The same parents who were so brutally abusive to my brother gave me information on how to handle tantrums with my aspie. No violence, no name calling, no meanness, and it worked. Why would the very same people who used to beat to handle tantrums now advice non-violent and non-harmful methods? People can in fact learn, and do. The fact is, that is how I handled my aspie's trantrums so that he stopped having them. Just let him have them, ignored them. And he eventually stopped having them. But for some bizarre reason, doing nothing seems to be the hardest thing for many people. I'm under no illusion that every autistic person will stop having tantrums. But damn, why not give a person a chance to stop, do you think they are fun for the person having them? <br /><br />I am afraid that the autistic community overestimates that ability of the neuro-typicals to just be themselves. Neurotypicals are not so cookie-cutter alike and we don't come born into an autistic social club that gives us a place to fit in. To fit in we must model ourselves to fit in situations, to be professional in a workplace, to hide our emotions, not say certain things, and to maintain all kinds of social niceties even with people we don't like.<br /><br />Any person, autistic or not, can have a positive impact on the people around them. Silly me, to think that the autistic or human like the rest of us.TechWhisperings from an Academic Libraryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04200619473968715203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-17464007573689021862011-07-04T05:56:45.545-04:002011-07-04T05:56:45.545-04:00Aargh, it wasn't till after i signed off last ...Aargh, it wasn't till after i signed off last nite, that i realized i'd called you 'Vivian' instead of Amanda! Duh! (Slaps side of head...) I can only plead that it was late at night my time. My apologies.<br />And 'juststimming', i think you hit the spot, right on. I spent many years in the feminist and anti-racism movements in my country. Many of the same attitudes prevailed in people's reactions to our trying to raise their consciousness. I constantly see similarities between those movements and the neurodiversity and disability rights movements.StrangerInGodzonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01092023230098316617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-68105506917187283452011-07-03T22:10:44.365-04:002011-07-03T22:10:44.365-04:00~TechWhisperings,
1. "This post triggered me...~TechWhisperings,<br /><br />1. "This post triggered me, which I'm ok with because it helps me to get handle on myself."<br /><br />...I do not think that word means what you think it means.<br /><br />2. I'm pretty sure Amanda is much, much more likely to be genuinely triggered by nondisabled people telling her to be <i>gentle</i> with bigotry and abuse than pretty much anything else.<br /><br />3. In fact, the post is pretty much about that.<br /><br />4. No one except Amanda gets to tell Amanda how to deal with being triggered. Your gentle suggestions are actually incredibly unhelpful and invalidating.<br /><br />5. <i>Many, many adults dealing with children, whether the children are disabled or not, do not understand or have misconceptions about how to deal with tantrums.</i><br /><br />...the fact that you refer to what is being discussed as "dealing with tantrums" tells me that you may be one of those people!<br /><br />6. "I hope that you understand that you are in a unique position to educate this person with gentle words and gentle examples."<br /><br />I would like you to consider what it might be like to <i>always</i> be in a position, by virtue of your existence, wherein you are expected to educate other, sometimes abusive, people about your oppression and gently remind them, over and over again, that you and those with your disability are in fact humans. Perhaps you will be asked to provide proof. Probably you will be expected to apologize for being harsh or unreasonable. You yourself, of course, will never be owed an apology, and any time you might want to take to your personal blog to lament, just for a second, living in a world where you can never just *be*, you will be scolded.<br /><br />I hope you realize that your comment actually just poured salt on a wound and then rubbed lemon juice in it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-4067932571824436032011-07-03T06:53:18.383-04:002011-07-03T06:53:18.383-04:00Hi Amanda,
I read your blog because it gives me v...Hi Amanda,<br /><br />I read your blog because it gives me valuable insights into the mind of my son who is a 13 year old aspie. This post triggered me, which I'm ok with because it helps me to get handle on myself. I hope that you understand that it will get better with time.<br /><br />Some perspective. Many, many adults dealing with children, whether the children are disabled or not, do not understand or have misconceptions about how to deal with tantrums. I hope that you understand that you are in a unique position to educate this person with gentle words and gentle examples.<br /><br />Using the power that you have to influence people may help you to feel better when these kinds of situations happen. Eventually the flashbacks can be changed as your memories of yourself in these situations changes to that of an effective and empowered person. <br /><br />I wish that I would have been able to face triggers the way your are when I was your age. Willingly being in your situation demonstrates your strength and I really have to say how fantastic that is and how much that will help you to heal.TechWhisperings from an Academic Libraryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04200619473968715203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-74934849493445094832011-07-03T06:35:20.890-04:002011-07-03T06:35:20.890-04:00Oh God i really feel for you Vivian. It's the ...Oh God i really feel for you Vivian. It's the same old, same old 'invisibility' issue. As someone who has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as well as Aspergers, i had to confront the whole 'but you look okay' stuff, etc, etc, long before i had any clue that i had AS. I've had people treat me as tho i was feeble-minded becos of it - it used to really irk me, i felt like saying "It's my body that's disabled, not my brain!" (In fact i felt i was smarter than them, usually!)<br />I want to say also i love your analyses of disability issues. It puts into words what i have long felt, but not been able to put into words. I worked in a hospital for intellectually handicapped children and young people many, many years ago, and i felt acutely how patronising and excluding people's reactions were to them, but i had no words, and even when i tried to say, well i think they deserve respect as people even if they are mentally handicapped, i was virtually laughed at, or told 'oh, they're not aware of how you treat them', or that it didn't matter how they were treated cos they were only 'retards', or words to that effect. I was made to feel stupid for even saying it. So i'm glad people are now sticking up for the rights of the disabled and the autistic, even if we aren't making much headway yet, and there's a long way to go on changing people's attitudes. <br />Keep up the good work! :)StrangerInGodzonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01092023230098316617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8466691337834051176.post-984677274041285332011-07-03T00:02:19.776-04:002011-07-03T00:02:19.776-04:00"Last week one of my coworkers, who I had unt..."Last week one of my coworkers, who I had until then considered a friend and vice versa, told me that he thought campers who had meltdowns were 'brats who needed discipline.' After unwisely..."<br /><br />I kind of feel like this everywhere. I mean that is a particularly difficult situation you are in, but not too long ago I was in a room with people who take classes with me and they started talking about crazy people from mental institutions in very disparaging ways and it's the same feeling, like what would they do if they knew that was me? That is just really scary and demoralizing and it makes me want to disappear or never talk to anyone again. It's like you just have to deal with it or become more and more isolated.<br /><br />I'm trying to think of something nice (and less depressing) to say or maybe I'm trying to figure out how to say some wordless thing I already know that's nice but I think what you're managing to do is really impressive.<br /><br />I think being "out" can work out okay sometimes too. Maybe not for where you are but I believe it's possible for some people sometimes.Panchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14695297748121188470noreply@blogger.com